Showing posts with label Beverly Van Pelt. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Beverly Van Pelt. Show all posts

Monday, July 01, 2013

"Our children, and our sins, lay on the King!"

"Let us our lives, our souls,
Our debts, our careful wives,
Our children, and our sins,
lay on the King!"
William Shakespeare, "Henry V" Act IV, Scene 1



The genius of Shakespeare has long been discussed but I have found an instance of it that I cannot allow to be lost in the conversation about Costumes.

While re-charting the costume changes for the Paper Wing Theatre's production of "The Tragedy of MacBETH", I noticed that King Duncan is in 3 scenes and then gets killed (we have added that as a scene). “King” MacBeth is in 3 scenes and then gets killed.

The Bard had a distinct sense of symmetry and one might even conclude that he is making a statement that all “Kings” are the same. There are many scholarly resources that I could look into for more evidence of the playwrights views of the monarchy, but time is too short - I rely solely on the text.

This is just one of many intricacies of the play, but one that is not so obvious until you see it on a COSTUMES CHART!



By the way, I am in my last week before Dress Rehearsals. It's exciting, scary, thrilling, and TIME-SENSITIVE!

Friday, June 21, 2013

"Double, Double, Toil and Trouble" - The Three Weird Sisters Get Clothed

Ha! You thought, from this title, that the Three Weird Sisters in our production of "MacBETH" were naked didn't you?! If so, you were a victim of a double entendre. The word "clothed" in this sense means "to be covered in cloth" as opposed to "to wear clothes". This is the sort of wordplay that I ADORE in Shakespeare and in real life... ehem! But I digress.

Happy was the night when I wrapped the witches in cloth. In my previous post, I discussed the horror I was feeling at cutting fabric without having my actresses in front of me so the relief I now feel is great! Though I have more to do, I feel much better about my progress.

In the next day or two I will be handing off projects to our seamstress. This is a new situation for me as I have always been the only one working on projects of this sort (with the exception of the exceptional help my husband has been through the years). I will be getting a feel for what type of work she does and that will help me to know what I can hand off.

Today's Plan
Get info about Seamstress
Run through revised script
Account for each Character (already in progress)
Account for each Player (already in progress)
Account for each Costume Change (already in progress)
Account for each Costume Piece (already in progress)
Design "mini-LOOKBOOK" for "Apparitions"
Discuss "Apparitions" with Director
Work with actor on costumes for King and Siward
Work with actors on costume questions / issues
Begin plan for Soldiers' costumes

This is a LOT! This is basically how I spend everyday. No wonder I'm not sleeping. Up until last week, I was able to "sleep, perchance to dream" the answers to my present and pressing questions. Now, being sleep-deprived and stressed, I find the answers are coming to me slower. THAT is why all of the forms that I have created and maintained are so critical - they are my lifeboat in this turbulent sea - they are the blueprint to the House of Beverly MacBETH!

Oh! One thing to add to this list... PROPS! I must get together with the Director to discuss the PROPS as they pertain to costumes. Whew! That's a biggie!!!!!!

Be sure to check out the Links I have on the right sidebar. There are some new ones, and all of them are fascinating!!!!


And here, for the scholarly students of Shakespeare (ehem!), is an excerpt from the immensely interesting (scintillating) website, SHAKESPEARE RESOURCE CENTER regarding a double entendre in MacBETH.



-   /  -      /      /    -     / -  /
The curtain'd sleep; witchcraft celebrates

Here again we see a trochee following a caesura in a standard Shakespeare variation. Curtain'd sleep in this context is a double entendre that plays upon the literal meaning of bedcurtains and a more figurative meaning of "veiled" that suggests hidden from consciousness. Celebrate denotes the solemn performance of rites rather than its more festive connotations with which we associate its use.

Wednesday, June 19, 2013

"But screw your courage to the sticking-place..."

In my last post, I discussed some of the important reasons to become intimately familiar with the characters in the play. I can now report the downside of that. Once you have a design in mind based on a character, it is a difficult process to change when the character suddenly morphs into another type of character. I can give too much detail here, but let’s just say that a character who did relatively little movement has absorbed another character who must have a very good range of motion. ACK! The costume that the original character was to wear worked because he was “restricted” in movement. This same outfit will positively NOT work for this added feature. What’s at stake? The aesthetic!  As I mull over the possible remedies to this, I’ll continue this post.

I was able to go into the Wardrobe one evening. I spent three hours pulling down assorted clothing and accessories that the Paper Wing Theatre had accumulated over the years. What joy I got from pulling down “that full length gown” and “those crazy suede pants” then determining if they would fit into the the Play’s aesthetic that was forming in my mind. I pulled out about 20 pieces that I thought would work. At the end of the evening, the Director gave me the green-light AND a rack for show clothing. WIN!

Next came shopping! Shopping has been ridiculously FUN and rather dangerous. Now that I had my strong aesthetic (there’s that word again) in mind, it was easy to walk into thrift stores and fabric stores with firm purpose – only to buy what I KNOW I needed and NOT to buy stuff I MIGHT need. Knowing that the budget is small helped in that regard, and in some ways I think of this as a type of “Project Runway” challenge: How do you find beautiful fabrics in big lengths for almost no money? Or just as hard, how do you find ready-made clothing for pennies?

The answer to these questions came from my favorite thrift stores. Goodwill stores in Seaside and Monterey had interesting selections but the real winner is Last Chance Mercantile in Marina. Here I stumbled onto a sale of “All Clothing $1”. #SNAP It was a Bonanza! White shirts, dresses, sweaters, suede and pleather garments to cut up… I was in Heaven!

I brought these things to the theater and put them on the rack with the other pieces. As I put them up there, I was sure to label each piece individually with the name of the character that it would belong to. Later that day, as actors came in, I had them try on the various pieces. Shockingly, all but two pieces fit the players. Of the two that did not, the one dress for Lady MacBETH was too small and was crucial. The other dress was for Lady MacDuff. This dress was small in the bust area but a simple short length of fabric pinned in the back will extend it enough to be quite lovely. Then the scarf that I use to accessorize it can be secured to hide the panel. Problems solved.

I have solid ideas for the lengths of fabric I purchased, but I am having a terrible time cutting them. I don’t mean that they are hard to cut, but that making the first cut to the fabric is mortifying because they are so beautiful! They are GORGEOUS! What if I make a mistake? MacBETH asks this of Lady MacBETH, “And if we fail?” to which she asks, “We fail! But screw your courage to the sticking-place, And we'll not fail.” While I’m loathe to take advice from such a person, I did find the works to be motivational. The “We fail!” reminded me of my motto, “FEAR NOT!” and with that, I cut fabric.


I’m at a point now where I realize it wasn't the fabric cutting, per say, that was freaking me out. It was the cutting it without the actors in front of me so I could double and triple check the measurements. The adage, “Measure twice, cut once!” wasn't available to me. I made one piece that night because I knew it would fit one of the actors even if a little big, but I refrained from doing any more. Tonight I’ll take the fabric, the scissors, the pins, the sewing machine, and the courage… and I’ll pound out the Three Weird Sisters costumes tonight!

Thursday, June 13, 2013

"I may know your character better than you do right now!"

So in my earlier blog post, I discussed my costume design binder that had Questions, Cast List, LOOK BOOK, etc. in it. These were just the beginning of the essentials that I’ve been collecting in there.

The rehearsal schedule is critical to have printed out in my binder. There have been a few days shuffled around and I was able to make quick notes about them with out having to use my laptop or change my calendar on my phone while the director is still talking.

I also needed the working script so that I could breakdown the scenes. This is one of the most important processes of all. One must completely understand the play and its action to be able to determine the type of clothing needed, and the number of costume changes that are necessary.

I want to take a moment to say that it is critical for the costume designer to be a most of the rehearsals. Often the Director and the players are blocking scenes and may add or cut from the existing work.  The costumer must be very familiar with the material to be able to help “guide” the Director if, say, one knows that a scene that is being cut will dramatically affect the main character’s ability to complete his costume change. That decision could affect many characters that way. Another example would be if the Director adds a scene. The costumer must be there to understand the new dynamics and likely “add” a costume change to the actor’s gear. The costumer has to know the action and timing of the play as well as the Director does to be able to have all of the appropriate clothing, etc come out on time.

To breakdown the scenes, I read through the entire script without stopping or noting anything. This helps one to know the feel of the story and gain a sense of its timing. Having “MacBETH” as my favorite Shakespearean play was both an advantage and a disadvantage for me. The advantage came from my intimate knowledge of what the “traditional” presentation of the play looks like which was vitally important when conferring with the Director and the Producer – “I know whereof I speak…” – and have the “internal clock” of the play ticking in my head. The disadvantage is that knowing the play very well, I found myself anticipating – action – movements – tones – instead of having a good clean reading of the text. Regardless, I got through the first reading and moved on to note-taking.

The second reading of the text, I held pencil in hand and made ready. Looking up each Act number and Scene number, I noted the place within time, the location, and the characters that all appeared. So for example:

Act I, Scene I:
A desert place.
(Three Weird Sisters)

Act I, Scene II:
A camp near Forres.
(King Duncan, Malcolm, Donalbain, Lennox, Attendants, Sergeant, Rosse, Angus)

And so on through the whole play. Of course, the importance of this is clear. 1) One must know where in the play the action is happening; 2) One must know what environment the actors will portray, and 3) One must know which characters will be in the scene. Here I add an extra bit – 4) One must know which actors are NOT in the scene. This goes back to timing. Knowing the play well, I know that Lady MacBETH does not appear immediately in the play and that there will be necessary “Hair & Make-up” time for her. Balance that with the other players going on and coming off of the stage and the fact is clear: I need to know where EVERYONE is EVERY SECOND of the play. I need every second of time I can get.

OK. It goes a little bit farther now. Opening the script for the third time, I read it with one thought in mind the entire time: what is the costume each character is wearing at this moment. Reading through the text, I listed the three weird sisters’ costume change #1, MacBETH’s costume change #1, Banquot’s costume change #1, and so on. It got tricky though. There are multiple characters coming in and out of the scene, so meticulous attention is required. As I moved on through the test, I noted, MacBETH’s costume change #2, MacBETH’s costume change #3, and so on – for each character in the play.

Here’s a screen grab of the first two scenes of Act I:





By this time, I was feeling like a Shakespearean scholar, but it doesn’t end there. I began the process of matching the actors to their roles. Simple, right? Well, not so much. The words are easy enough but learning the faces with the names is not. Plus this was when I began requesting Sizes. By the time I actually got to touch the first piece of clothing, I was able to say to any character in the play, "I may know your character better than you do right now!" TRUTH!


Ah, but I’ll leave that for my next post.

The Tragedy of "M"



             First Witch
 48   All hail, Macbeth! hail to thee, Thane of Glamis!
      Second Witch
 49   All hail, Macbeth, hail to thee, Thane of Cawdor!
      Third Witch
 50   All hail, Macbeth, thou shalt be king hereafter!





Restless and excited when Patrick was recast as MacBETH, I told him that we were going straight out to take photos, if only for inspiration. I ended up taking a series of shots – 45 of those shots were considered pretty darn good, and we landed on a few exceptional ones.

I created the poster above from one of those shots. Instead of proclaiming “MacBETH!” across the top, I opted for the more subtle “M” with the opening date in roman numerals. I was sure to put this in my LOOK BOOK that I shared with the Director and the Producer (see previous blog for info on my LOOK BOOK).

Another benefit from the photo shoot was that we could see his movement in the garments. Leather doublet and black kilt, with "accessories" like tartan scarf, etc. were restrictive in movement as he climbed up a steep hill and almost fell down the same hill. In the end, we both decided that we would like to take more photos indoors to represent the conditions under which the play will be performed, that is to say, we didn't want people to get the impression that this was an outdoor play.



Tuesday, June 11, 2013

"Glamis Hath Murdered Sleep!"

Before taking on the costuming for the Paper Wing Theatre's production of "MacBETH", I thought of the magnitude of the project. MacBETH is no small scale black box show. There are nearly 30 people playing MORE than 30 roles, which means that the true difficulty in this is the organization of the thing! Still, with my motto -- FEAR NOT! -- I jumped right in.

I grabbed a binder and began to prepare. First, the easy stuff: the rehearsal schedule and the preliminary cast of characters. Then, the list of critical questions: What's off limits? What resources? What's the budget? 

As much as possible, I have been recording info in a document I am calling Dseigners Forms.  This is in MS Excel and consists of many tabs with names CAST LIST, CAST SIZES, COSTUME CHART, COSTUME CHANGES, COSTUME BREAKDOWN. This list grew as I moved on to my next priority... the LOOK BOOK.

The LOOK BOOK was as much for me as it was for the Producer and Director. I started off with a thought - what are the elements of the period and the famous productions? What photos are available online? The major performances were all there including Orson Welles. The photos ranged from period to present day, and searching the web began to feel overwhelming.

My mom always tells me to break things down into baby-steps and that was just the advice I needed for this.  Finally, the natural pattern of the Scottish play emerged: Groupings -- MacBETH Traditional, MacBETH Modernistic, MacBETH Poster Ideas, MacBETH Set Ideas, MacBETH with the Three Weird Sisters, MacBeth with Lady MacBETH (blended), Lady MacBETH Traditional, Lady MacBETH Modernistic, and Lady MacBETH AVANT GARDE. This last section included such things as a "fur" coat made of looped video tape, a "fur" stole made from crocheted shredded white plastic bags, Punk Rock and Vampire designs, and the Unisex Fashions of the Rad Hourani Fashion House. 

This blended approach facilitated an organized brainstorming session with the Director and later with the Producer. It allowed me to hear and observe their impressions and expressions. I could see what excited them and where they wanted to pull back. To be honest, this method worked surprisingly well, and still serves as inspiration for me. 

I intentionally made the margins large so there would be room for notation, drawings, or doodles. The pages were carefully arranged so that the layout was balanced as opposed to looking "thrown together" or sparse, and since it was to be printed back-to-back, I made sure that each facing page complimented the other. Printed in full, lush color on 20 lb paper, the LOOK BOOK was 3-hole punched and placed in the binder.


By this time, I had collected a large number of photos and was about to start searching for Forms for Costume Designer Organization. I realized that this too would be a lot of information so before I proceeded any further, I set up an organizational system in my Costume Design folder. Here's a screen grab of it. 



From here, I was able to drag photos or docs to the appropriate folder, and am prepared in advance for files & images that I know are coming and will need a home. 

At this point, I had been working on this project for two (2) days, and this was when I started to work on this in my sleep. It recalls Lady MacBETH who re-enacts the murderous events in her famous "sleep walking" scene. OK. I didn't murder my ideas, nor did I sleep walk. Still, I was recreating my waking work in my sleep. Needless  to say, this has led to far less sleep - the trapping of deeds that MacBETH recognizes when he exclaims following his act Regicide, "Glamis hath murdered sleep!" Luckily for me, this gives me joy!

I will continue to elaborate on my  process in my next post...

Monday, June 10, 2013

The Gothic Gourmet: Dreaming of Costumes Blog

I have been dreaming of costumes for my whole life.

I’m sure it started with my mother dressing me in beautiful dresses as a little girl. Once I turned "Tom-Boy", I liked the more sporty stuff. By High School, I was a New Romantic / Punk wearing leather skirts and just starting to explore the ‘unisex’ look. First year of college brought me into Designer clothes. This was just one part.

Then there was Easter, Christmas, and Halloween. Easter shopping was elegant and always “something more’. Christmas was about color and celebration. Halloween, though, as you probably have already guessed, was where the concept of DESIGNING took shape.

The early years saw store bought costumes. One favorite was “Casper The Friendly Ghost”. Dang! How old was then? Maybe 6? Maybe 7? Eventually, I started to come up with my own costumes. The routine was like this: “Gah! It’s Halloween tomorrow and I haven’t made a costume yet! What do I have?” followed by a search through the closet, then the garage. Inspiration usually came from a weirdly bent piece of metal or a branch that had been trimmed from the tree in the backyard. Once I had a concept, I would go back to the closet or more likely the scrap bag of fabrics. From there I would start “my build”. To be honest, there were very few times when I sewed an outfit completely, though I sew. No! On such short notice, creativity is the master of invention and costumes were constructed from my wild imaginings. I wish I had photos from back then. It would be interesting to see how many of those creations were truly successful and how many were… not.

Anyhow, those were the early years… the courageous early years where I learned how much I LOVED COSTUMES! I loved the potential. I loved the failures almost as much as the successes because inevitably those unsuccessful ones taught me to take a chance, even try a new technique, damn the consequences. Oh, I just love that! “Damn the consequences!”

In recent years, I’ve been more precise in my practice. Some costumes: My son’s Space Cadet costume was fun; Renaissance outfits for Dane, Patrick, and myself. Those were very demanding projects and didn’t employ any “build” to them. They were straight up sewing projects. No child will forget my "Other Mother" from "Coraline" complete with button eyes that I wear for two straight days. There's just too many to enumerate. The next “build” was my DALEK GOWN. I have photos of that process and will post them in a separate blog entry. The idea there was to de-construct a gown to re-construct it… and then add the DALEK to it. It was a very fast-paced project and really was the longest in the end.

And here I am today! Embarking on a super secret dream that I didn’t realize I had until it was handed to me. I am so in love with this idea! And yet, I admit, it’s a – - BIG. SCARY. COMMITMENT. That’s OK. I have a new motto this year – NO FEAR! Or put more poetically – FEAR NOT! Ha! It makes me feel better when I say that… and that is what gets me through all of the scary stuff I’ve been through in my life only now it has a name – FEAR NOT!

When I accepted this challenge, the first thing Patrick said to me was, “You HAVE to Blog this! Blog the whole process.” Something about that rang so true in me. So this is the beginning of that. Now that my costuming background is exposed, I’ll move on to my process in the next post.






Tuesday, June 22, 2010

DID YOU KNOW...?

Did you know that I love to work-out, especially with weights. There is something quite meditative for me in the physicality of movement, though Yoga and such lack a certain intensity that I thrive on. Sometimes I find myself daydreaming of a good little soccer game with a bunch of kids or an evening back on my favorite Curling Ice, but these are not easy to come by right now.

When I get this urge, I know it's time to step up the intensity of my normal work-out. Here are some of my favorite ways of doing that.

1) JUMPING ROPE -- This is one of those childhood acitivities that I loved soooooo much that I stll delight in doing it. I'm hoping to put together a small group of friends --who also like jumping rope -- to try doing "double dutch" again. Oh! How I LOVED that!

2) HIKING -- The Central Coast of California has some impressive and daunting hikes in glorious forests, but I'm also a big fan of hiking the steep streets of Old Monterey. Inevitably, one hiking there will end at one of many fabulous city parks. While taking in the sights at the park, add Jumping Jacks, push-ups, deep knee lunges, and high kicks.

3) JOGGING ON THE BEACH -- They say that jogging barefoot in beach sand is the very best way to do it. The Monterey Peninsula has breath-taking beaches as well as walking/biking trails that hug the beaches. I have never been a willing jogger (ever) but I am determined to start now because the scenic beauty contributes much to ones sense of health.

4) BICYCLING BY THE BEACH -- These walking/biking trails listed above offer a relatively safe way to get in a lot of milage while taking in the sights. I gave up bicycling many years ago but now a new yearning has started in me and this is on my list of "must do" activities.

5) GARDENING -- About the time I start getting bored in my work-outs, I always seem to notice that the yard needs to be weeded, the garden needs planting, or the trees need pruning. These activities, when aproached with vigor, work every muscle in the body and burn intense amounts of calories when you continue to push through fatigue to get the job done. There is nothing like collapsing in exhaustion in a lawn chair and enjoying the beauty of your labors.

I would love to know what YOU do to add intensity to your work-outs. And what do you wear to work-out? In keeping with my goth sensibilities, I wear black band girly tees adn black yoga pants.

Be well. Be healthy. And beware!

From the Sunny Side of the Graveyard,
Beverly - The Gothic Gourmet

Friday, May 21, 2010

Back on Blogger

The Gothic Gourmet Blog is back on Blogger. It's return is due in large part to Blogger not supporting ftp publishing, but really the posting problems have been going on for years. It is my hope, my great, deep hope that this move back to the source will resolve this problem.

While I'm happy to be back, the unfortunate truth is that many of the posts have dropped out, as well as the pages with recipes and the photo gallery. Well, the mise en place is set for starting anew.

I have several projects happening at this time, including a microbudget feature that I will start filming once the funding comes together. ScriptFrenzy April resulted in an exciting and refreshing script that I've always had in me and always was waiting to let out.

Join me on my Beverly Van Pelt public Facebook page. It's easy! www.facebook.com/gothicgourmet

Also on Facebook is The Gothic Gourmet Fan Page. Stop by for some witty repartee and deliciously dark secrets! www.facebook.com/pages/The-Gothic-Gourmet/58814909711

The Gothic Gourmet Channel is a great place to see video interviews and commentary. www.YouTube.com/gothicgourmet

The Gothic Gourmet on Myspace is my first True "Social Networking" Love though I am disgruntled with its continuing migration into a Facebook clone. www.myspace.com/gothigourmet

gothicgourmet.podomatic.com is the origin of The Gothic Gourmet Podcasts.

I will be featured in the July/August Issue of CultGoddessMagazine.com. The theme is WOMEN IN CHARGE! Indeed! www.CultGoddessMagazine.com

SunnySideoftheGraveyard.com will be having a storewide sale. SunnySideoftheGraveyard.com

SunnySideoftheGraveyard.com is on the Facebook. Yes, it is. www.facebook.com/pages/Monterey-CA/Sunny-Side-of-the-Graveyard/6544058929

I am currently posting on Women of the League Bloggers. This is a side project of The League of Extraordinary Paranormal Women and ParaWomen SCREAM Radio. My posts are reflections on the “Paranormal in Real Estate”. http://www.theleagueofextraordinarywomenofparanormalandhorror.com/2010/05/in-world-of-darkness-and-hope.html

Finally, I am moving the GothicGourmet.com and BeverlyVanPelt.com domains to a new host. Sadly this means that I've lost my subscribers, rss feeds, etc. Once these pages are up and running I will be sure to post it here and on the Social Networking sites.

Well, until next time…

From the Sunny Side of the Graveyard,
Beverly The Gothic Gourmet

Sunday, October 04, 2009

RADIO APPEARANCES

It's been a long and challenging summer for me, but as you know, I love a challenge.

I made my way down to the Carnival of Darkness Film Festival in Hollywood. It was fabulous event highlighting the Indie Horror short film genre. The crowd was interesting, eclectic, and well networked which made for GREAT Interviews. That's right! I interviewed many cool peeps and hope you'll visit my YouTube Channel to check them out. www.YouTube.com/gothicgourmet

I also moved house this summer. It's so hard to do, but there were many good reason to get a change of scenery. Of course, as I was busy working on the packing, everything else revved up and some things just had to wait for this week.

Questions are still coming about CURLING. The truth is, I haven't had the health, the wealth, or the free time to enjoy my favorite, or rather my BELOVED, sport. I love the ice. I love my friends there. I love the feeling of wind in my face as I slide out of the hack. So, it's been a year since I've curled. I'm sad thinking about that. I still stretch in case I can get up there to do it, but I finally took my curling gear out of my trunk last week. The realization that I just can't do it right now hit me with a thud.

I was a guest on Allie Cheslick's "Wings of Love" Radio Show last week. She is one of my dearest radio friends and has always encouraged me and my efforts. Next, I'll be a guest on Andrew Brewer's "The Rock 'n' Roll Psychic" Radio Show on Monday, October 5, 2009. The will be 4pm Pacific Time -- please adjust for other time zones. :-) Then on Oct 14th, I'll be a guest on Tanya Douglas' Radio Show at 5pm Pacific, and on the 15th I'll be on Nightstalkers Paranormal Radio at 9pm Pacific.

SunnySideoftheGraveyard.com is having a 20% storewide sale to celebrate all of the publicity that I'm getting this month.

OK. The first horror film is a supernatural horror and went on hold because I had to pack all of the equipment, etc. for the move. No matter how well I labeled the boxes, it's just never enough. Wish me luck on pulling it all together for a mid-autumn shooting schedule. The second horror film is still in scriptwriting and is developing into an intensely interesting cult horror film. It's great and hard to have two going at once... for obvious reasons.

I am proud to announce the creation of G'night Gnome Productions which has a focus on feature films, tv, and radio broadcasting. Principles: Beverly Van Pelt, Patrick Golden, Amy Williamson, and Ian Clark.

So that's the update. Hope everyone is celebrating the harvest of another amazing year and really to roll gracefully through another holiday season!

~Bev

Wednesday, June 17, 2009

THE GOTHIC GOURMET LOSES MIND, STARTS NEW CREATIVE PROJECT

So there are times when one needs a creative project in order to remember the Artist inside. Since I am about half way through my recovery time, I thought now would be the time to challenge myself and my team to something new.



Here are the first two brainstorming sessions between me and my writing/directing partner Patrick Golden.



This is the first conversation…








This is the second conversation a short (very short) time later…